Aug 18, 2022·edited Aug 18, 2022Liked by Andrew Zimmern
To answer the question, Yes, some people have lost their minds.
If you are selling something as authentic, then it better be. There needs to be a respect for ingredients & tradition of preparation that has existed over time.
I actually love to have what Is considered a food that is specific to a culture & then learn that the person preparing has only a love for the cuisine or culture, and zero biological connection.
If you are presenting as an interpretation of…go nuts! Have fun. I know my interpretation of AZ’s gazpacho is going to be quite different than sweet Melissa’s(on acct of the Nutella she’ll slip in 😂) What happened to “imitation is the highest form of flattery” isn’t that what so much of cooking really is? Recreating something we loved, or saw, or experienced or smelled or remember?
But come on….
If Eric Ripert wants to make me anything and call it Pho. I’m going to be just fine with that!
They say true “jerk” must be smoked over pimento wood. That’s true but it’s expensive and there are very few sources for it in this country. I know because I import the stuff. Quite frankly there’s no way restaurants can afford to use it. Should they not make jerk chicken & pork because of this? No - do the best you can to come close. Also I’d like someone to clarify for me what’s the difference between meals that are supposedly cultural appropriation and all the fusion cuisines that you wrote about last week? Personally I think the whole cultural appropriation thing has gone a little too far.
Well, hey.....my father came from Sicily and I hate when people refer to sauce as gravy (we've had this discussion before.) I don't think these types of things should be so "black/white," but if something offends someone, find out why it does (so you can first understand it) and then don't do it, or explain why you are doing it anyway. It's the day and age of people being offended on both sides of so many issues....inclusion, Me Too movement, BLM, etc. But when we've been insensitive and done stupid things for so long, and disrespected people, doing the right thing can rub the wrong way. It all boils down to "when you know better, do better." Thank you, Maya.
I don't want to get political here - we need time away from all that mess - but I agree that people have become overly sensitive when it is not warranted. We all need to relax a bit with the outrage.
Understanding and highlighting our cultural differences are a form of celebration, not denigration. Especially when it comes to food.
Language often divides us because it can prevent us from understanding each other. But food can bring us together. People are often proud of their cuisines, and happy to share.
I'll never forget riding in a hovercraft on a lake in Korea with a handful of Americans and dozens of elderly Koreans. The old man next to me shared his bag of fried chicken and bottle of soju, and we had the best time! A lot of nodding and laughing, but not a word understood between us.
When we travel, what do we look for? To meet new people, see new things, and eat new foods.
My Swiss-German-English heritage son was born on Cinco de Mayo. Are we wrong to celebrate with a Mexican feast? His girlfriend is from a half Mexican/half Puerto Rican family. Far from being offended, my high school Spanish makes them laugh. Especially after a few sangrias.
The beauty of the American ideal is borne through our collective cuisine. Without Jefferson's black cook (enslaved, unfortunately), we wouldn't have macaroni and cheese. There are countless examples of this in every region of the US.
I can think of no purer example of this than the scene in the Godfather when the boys are waiting to find out where to meet Solozzo. What are they having for dinner? Chinese food and Coca-Cola.
I agree with AZ. This article is certainly brave, in the context of the world we live in today that features an insanely high level of anger and hyper criticism. When I watch Vivienne Leigh in Streetcar Named Desire....I don't think about whether Viv is a real Southerner. Do you think Tennessee Williams thought about that when they cast her? I think about what a freakin great actress she was and how she nailed Blanche and brought that movie into cinema history. Does a doctor who studies polio and becomes a world's expert, have to have polio to be the expert? Perhaps these are rudimentary questions but sometimes I feel that our culture of always looking for the hook to tear people down is much more important these days that simply asking yourself if someone being a lifelong expert on a topic makes then legit ENOUGH to have a legacy. My answer would be YES! For a long time, Wolfgang Puck was the kind of bespoke pizzas back in the early 80s. Wolfgang is no paisan. Did that make his food any less popular or his legacy questionable. In terms of Italian food, EVERY CHEF cooks this cuisine. How did we start parsing between countries of origin? and WHY? Many of us believe in the global nature of the world these days and we often celebrate this fact. What is the difference between marginalizing someone who dedicated their lives to celebrating another culture for having the unmitigated gal to have a passion and acceptance for something. Think of how closed minded that is. The only people that we are protecting by ranting are not the indigenous cultures but the evolution of a global society that is inclusive and accepting. Get a hobby other than bitterness. Like AZ said on his 61 list....ask yourself.....do I really need to say this, is it necessary, and should it be said by me. Thanks for having the guts to say it out loud Cuozzo. As my Dad would have said....the guys got MOXIE!
I was born mid 60s. My monster cookbook collection started with Diana Kennedy, Barbara Tropp. & Paula Wolfert, as well as Julia Child. All increased my culinary skills AND appreciation of other cultures - not any different from my equally loved Julie Sahni & Marcella Hazan!
I was born a decade earlier, but LOVE all those amazing authors. I have a monster collection too and have learned so very much over the years from all of them.
Steve did what he set out to do, which was get eyeballs on the story.
That being said, the charge of cultural appropriation always rings a little false with me. How does an individual appropriate a culture? Sure there are charlatans and buffoons out there who take advantage for their own profit but they aren't appropriating anything in my eyes. I think the fear is that these charlatans will extend any negative stereotypes (Miss Cleo anyone) that exist when you think about cultures or groups. I believe most people are smarter than that and can see what's real and what's artifice. Ms Kennedy had a deep love affair with Mexican cuisine that is easily determined by reading her cookbooks and articles. I'd call what she did, celebrating the culture not appropriating it. Should I be upset that Emeril Lagasse from Fall River Massachusetts has created an empire on New Orleans style cuisine? or should I see that he's just expanded the brand and gets people talking about it?
I completely agree with Steve Cuozzo. Food is a huge part of any culture, and it should be shared, celebrated, experimented with, modified, fused with the food of other cultures…..you name it. Is my local Japanese-owned sushi bar guilty of cultural appropriation because the senior sushi chef is Hispanic? Or because some of the dishes on the menu are Chinese? (Their sesame chicken is to die for, IMO.) Was the Chinese-owned local sushi bar where I used to live guilty of the same, even though the senior chef was Japanese? Or is any Anglo in New Mexico (where I live) guilty of it if he or she makes any of our state’s traditional Hispanic or Native dishes, like green chile stew, calabacitas (stewed squash), or fry bread? I think the “cultural appropriation” label is absurd in most (admittedly not all) circumstances - but I’ll go so far as to say that in the case of food, it’s ALWAYS absurd.
Well, it's THE POST. Isn't inflammatory writing their whole deal?
"Appropriation" - the exchange of culture and food and art - is a signature HUMAN trait.
Some cries of cultural appropriation have merit; some are knee-jerk garbage. It's important to suss out which is which before going on a rampage about it.
One can write about it in a way designed to foster dialog or rage. The latter doesn't help, but it sure does get clicks.
Diana Kennedy acted as an important cultural delegate for all the regional cuisines of Mexico to the world’s food curious (mostly the US). However, I found her later years to be punctuated with hubris and a pedantic style that was no longer welcome. Who was she to criticize the many native Mexican chefs who, through their own generational connections, chose to extend or interpret classic dishes with their own visions? Rather than embracing the evolution of Mexican cookery, she leaned on her past agency to find fault rather than encourage. It’s too bad. It’s almost as though she stirred a little British Imperialism into her work.
The sum of Mexican cuisines has been in a Renaissance. It certainly has been enjoyed more broadly because of Kennedy’s early work, but let’s hold back on pronouncing her anything other than an authority on Mexican food history. That would be a true disservice to the many actual Mexican chefs and abuelas that have upheld the traditions long before Diana came along.
Agreed. We're heading into tamale and elote season, and here in the Midwest you'll find some of the best food you'll ever eat being prepared by abuelas at roadside stands. People like Diana Kennedy are the compass pointing the way, which is a valuable function, but the knarled hands of the abuela who has made a million tamales are the tools of true art.
Exactly this! I don’t understand why people in this comment section are refusing to see the difference between cultural appreciation and appropriation. They keep giving examples of appreciation but are obtuse when it comes to actual appropriation.
Aug 18, 2022·edited Aug 18, 2022Liked by Andrew Zimmern
The real issue occurs when white people make inflammatory statements such as “if a non-Mexican celebrates that nation’s bounty more lovingly than anyone else” and claiming that a white woman is “the most knowledgeable expert on Mexican cooking” (statements from the article) is highly disrespectful toward the culture they’ve taken ideas from. As if they’ve created that stuff themselves. Then white people tend to minimize real cultural appropriation by bringing up trivial issues that a small minority of people have problems with. You can deny that it isn’t cultural appropriation all you want to but that’s expected coming from an appropriator. Most of the people who deny it in these comments are unsurprisingly white. Growth through cultural competency is the part that most white people want to skip and just move on to claiming something as their own. Part of borrowing and appreciating traditions from another culture is knowing the history behind it and respecting the beliefs and feelings of the people who are part of that culture and many white people just refuse to grasp this concept.
Anyone can appropriate a culture, I never stated otherwise, but it’s obvious who the biggest demographic doing it is. It’s evident through these comments. I guarantee you that the majority of the people defending it or who can’t discern between appropriation and appreciation within this comment section are white. Are you not white?
You didn't answer the question. You made a blanket statement about "most" people in a race. Is it OK to make statements like that about all races, or just white people?
I don't think it is ok to make sweeping generalizations at all, about any group of people. It's certainly not how I was raised. But if you were raised that way, perhaps you should declare it proudly and enlighten us all about its value.
There are so many GREAT comments here and I respect everyone's opinions.
I believe we need to SEE food from the real roots/origins. I believe in the importance of preserving those roots/origins or else we lose something of great value. Even pizza. We cant dilute food pathways, or we lose meaning/context and that's culinary genocide. But we also have to acknowledge that food moves around the world with dizzying speed now and changes to food culture happen every time someone cooks.
One thing I didn't see addressed is the culinary version of Lord Elgin stealing the marble friezes off the Parthenon. THAT is what we can never tolerate, is never acceptable and should always be called out. White America has done that with music and food at various times in our history to name two cultural totems as examples. Taking something without saying where/why/how/ and in some cases without getting permission is just wrong. Full stop. Even noting inspirations are important. thank you all for your comments. I read them all.
And Sierra, what you referred to as my apologies for what I said (which was mis-represented by FC) was heartfelt, real and I learned a lot from that experience. I changed some of the things I do, ways I think, how I talk… if we don’t learn, if we don’t stay teachable we are screwed.
IMO feeling offended for not offensive actions just let’s people lash out and give to their rage. They need some excuse and sadly don’t use their anger on real, serious matters we all should be mad about. I live in Poland and I was born in the ‘80 so I remember the time when there was nothing in stores. My mother gave me a cookbook about oriental cousines in which the author tried to recreate the recipes for Persian or Israeli dishes with what was available at that time (not much). I loved that book and it made me more open and adventurous and creative not just in the kitchen. I think that kitchen should be a safe place to experiment, to learn and to be adventurous. It pours over to other areas of life. We should cherish that.
Yes! It feels like people are actually looking for a reason to get their panties in a wad these days! And seriously, dont we already have enough things to get "wadded" about?
RELAX people, it's food. If it looks good - EAT IT!
It’s wonderful for cultures to experiment , cook, eat, and learn different foods from different cultures. But, taking a taco, adding pomegranate seeds and a blue corn tortilla, and calling it a new handy pocket sandwich to go, that you just invented, is highly insulting.
I am a Master Instructor for the Scuola Italiana Pizzaioli here in the US, and I travel all over the country teaching people how to make pizza. I don't ask the person's ethnicity before I begin teaching, but I'd venture to say that lately, less than a quarter of the people I'm teaching aren't of Italian origin. For all practical purposes, pizza has been so "appropriated", that most people have lost track of the fact that it's Italian.
As an Italian, I am glad to see Italian food doing so well in America. I don't care who makes it, but I'd rather it wasn't butchered. It does bother me, though, that there are so many people who go to such great lengths to strip it of its origins. It's as if they feel less guilty of robbing it, if they can find the moral justification to say the Italians robbed it first. We didn't..
The selective nature of cultural appropriation is what bothers me most, especially being at the losing end of an equation that sees Italian food being among the most popular foods in the US. It's not that we always like what is done, it's that we are not acknowledged if we feel it goes too far; and as a trained Italian chef, I can assure you that it does.
It goes way beyond superficial things like pineapple on pizza, and the scope of it is too broad for this format. I can tell you that, despite my desire to see the food of my culture be successful, there have been times in my professional life that I know it has gone too far. Unlike the other cultures that are at least given a voice, I feel the Italians never have.
Gregorio- Thanks for what you do. Peace through pizza! We built a wood fired oven on our farm in Wisconsin in 2021. We make pizzas almost every weekend, and our imaginations go wild. We make a lot of traditional pizzas, but we always save a few dough balls for experiments. How about Thai chicken pizza with peanut sauce? Seafood pizza with white sauce and Old Bay seasoning? Wisconsin brat pizza (thanks for the recipe AZ)? Nutella with strawberries? My current favorite? Jambalaya pizza with chicken, shrimp, and andouille sausage. Is it pizza? Probably not in the traditional sense. But it is often great. BTW, we always make at least one Margherita pizza to honor the tradition (and because it's awesome), and we imagine what it would be like to stoke the fire in an oven on the slopes of Mt. Vesuvius so many centuries ago.
I don't know if its pizza...and I don't know if it matters! I'm less worried about things like that than I am "I came up with my own spaghetti Carbonara". There IS a spaghetti carbonara, and it doesn't need your spin. How is it people are so creative, they can "improve" on classics, but they're too dumb (or scared) to come up with a name. I think where things go wrong is when you say "I do my own version of a pizza margherita, I put peanut butter and bacon on it instead"! Call it " pizza alla Sheboygan" (Sheboygan has great pizza, btw!) or whatever else and let it stand, or fall, on its own merits.
I mean, have you looked up the founders of the top pizza chains in the U.S.? It’s the same demographic of people who want to stake claim in the cultural traditions of others as well. Instead of comparing who has a louder voice among cultures being appropriated, the blame should be directed toward the appropriators.
I understand what you’re saying and I agree that it should be called out for all cultures not just some, but ultimately who needs to change and take responsibility for that? This is a question that I am asking you so I can understand more of your perspective.
Whoever is giving these "arbiters" a voice should be held accountable, first and foremost. A tree falling alone in the forest, etc. Since I don't think we're putting the jeannie back in the bottle, I think we should seriously consider calling "foul" on anyone who exploits any culture for financial gain-and I believe the pizza industry is globally worth 160 Billion dollars....Maybe we start showing the lunacy of the appropriation culture if Italy begins suing for royalties on anyone making pizza?
To answer the question, Yes, some people have lost their minds.
If you are selling something as authentic, then it better be. There needs to be a respect for ingredients & tradition of preparation that has existed over time.
I actually love to have what Is considered a food that is specific to a culture & then learn that the person preparing has only a love for the cuisine or culture, and zero biological connection.
If you are presenting as an interpretation of…go nuts! Have fun. I know my interpretation of AZ’s gazpacho is going to be quite different than sweet Melissa’s(on acct of the Nutella she’ll slip in 😂) What happened to “imitation is the highest form of flattery” isn’t that what so much of cooking really is? Recreating something we loved, or saw, or experienced or smelled or remember?
But come on….
If Eric Ripert wants to make me anything and call it Pho. I’m going to be just fine with that!
They say true “jerk” must be smoked over pimento wood. That’s true but it’s expensive and there are very few sources for it in this country. I know because I import the stuff. Quite frankly there’s no way restaurants can afford to use it. Should they not make jerk chicken & pork because of this? No - do the best you can to come close. Also I’d like someone to clarify for me what’s the difference between meals that are supposedly cultural appropriation and all the fusion cuisines that you wrote about last week? Personally I think the whole cultural appropriation thing has gone a little too far.
Well, hey.....my father came from Sicily and I hate when people refer to sauce as gravy (we've had this discussion before.) I don't think these types of things should be so "black/white," but if something offends someone, find out why it does (so you can first understand it) and then don't do it, or explain why you are doing it anyway. It's the day and age of people being offended on both sides of so many issues....inclusion, Me Too movement, BLM, etc. But when we've been insensitive and done stupid things for so long, and disrespected people, doing the right thing can rub the wrong way. It all boils down to "when you know better, do better." Thank you, Maya.
I don't want to get political here - we need time away from all that mess - but I agree that people have become overly sensitive when it is not warranted. We all need to relax a bit with the outrage.
Understanding and highlighting our cultural differences are a form of celebration, not denigration. Especially when it comes to food.
Language often divides us because it can prevent us from understanding each other. But food can bring us together. People are often proud of their cuisines, and happy to share.
I'll never forget riding in a hovercraft on a lake in Korea with a handful of Americans and dozens of elderly Koreans. The old man next to me shared his bag of fried chicken and bottle of soju, and we had the best time! A lot of nodding and laughing, but not a word understood between us.
When we travel, what do we look for? To meet new people, see new things, and eat new foods.
My Swiss-German-English heritage son was born on Cinco de Mayo. Are we wrong to celebrate with a Mexican feast? His girlfriend is from a half Mexican/half Puerto Rican family. Far from being offended, my high school Spanish makes them laugh. Especially after a few sangrias.
The beauty of the American ideal is borne through our collective cuisine. Without Jefferson's black cook (enslaved, unfortunately), we wouldn't have macaroni and cheese. There are countless examples of this in every region of the US.
I can think of no purer example of this than the scene in the Godfather when the boys are waiting to find out where to meet Solozzo. What are they having for dinner? Chinese food and Coca-Cola.
I agree with AZ. This article is certainly brave, in the context of the world we live in today that features an insanely high level of anger and hyper criticism. When I watch Vivienne Leigh in Streetcar Named Desire....I don't think about whether Viv is a real Southerner. Do you think Tennessee Williams thought about that when they cast her? I think about what a freakin great actress she was and how she nailed Blanche and brought that movie into cinema history. Does a doctor who studies polio and becomes a world's expert, have to have polio to be the expert? Perhaps these are rudimentary questions but sometimes I feel that our culture of always looking for the hook to tear people down is much more important these days that simply asking yourself if someone being a lifelong expert on a topic makes then legit ENOUGH to have a legacy. My answer would be YES! For a long time, Wolfgang Puck was the kind of bespoke pizzas back in the early 80s. Wolfgang is no paisan. Did that make his food any less popular or his legacy questionable. In terms of Italian food, EVERY CHEF cooks this cuisine. How did we start parsing between countries of origin? and WHY? Many of us believe in the global nature of the world these days and we often celebrate this fact. What is the difference between marginalizing someone who dedicated their lives to celebrating another culture for having the unmitigated gal to have a passion and acceptance for something. Think of how closed minded that is. The only people that we are protecting by ranting are not the indigenous cultures but the evolution of a global society that is inclusive and accepting. Get a hobby other than bitterness. Like AZ said on his 61 list....ask yourself.....do I really need to say this, is it necessary, and should it be said by me. Thanks for having the guts to say it out loud Cuozzo. As my Dad would have said....the guys got MOXIE!
I was born mid 60s. My monster cookbook collection started with Diana Kennedy, Barbara Tropp. & Paula Wolfert, as well as Julia Child. All increased my culinary skills AND appreciation of other cultures - not any different from my equally loved Julie Sahni & Marcella Hazan!
I was born a decade earlier, but LOVE all those amazing authors. I have a monster collection too and have learned so very much over the years from all of them.
Steve did what he set out to do, which was get eyeballs on the story.
That being said, the charge of cultural appropriation always rings a little false with me. How does an individual appropriate a culture? Sure there are charlatans and buffoons out there who take advantage for their own profit but they aren't appropriating anything in my eyes. I think the fear is that these charlatans will extend any negative stereotypes (Miss Cleo anyone) that exist when you think about cultures or groups. I believe most people are smarter than that and can see what's real and what's artifice. Ms Kennedy had a deep love affair with Mexican cuisine that is easily determined by reading her cookbooks and articles. I'd call what she did, celebrating the culture not appropriating it. Should I be upset that Emeril Lagasse from Fall River Massachusetts has created an empire on New Orleans style cuisine? or should I see that he's just expanded the brand and gets people talking about it?
I completely agree with Steve Cuozzo. Food is a huge part of any culture, and it should be shared, celebrated, experimented with, modified, fused with the food of other cultures…..you name it. Is my local Japanese-owned sushi bar guilty of cultural appropriation because the senior sushi chef is Hispanic? Or because some of the dishes on the menu are Chinese? (Their sesame chicken is to die for, IMO.) Was the Chinese-owned local sushi bar where I used to live guilty of the same, even though the senior chef was Japanese? Or is any Anglo in New Mexico (where I live) guilty of it if he or she makes any of our state’s traditional Hispanic or Native dishes, like green chile stew, calabacitas (stewed squash), or fry bread? I think the “cultural appropriation” label is absurd in most (admittedly not all) circumstances - but I’ll go so far as to say that in the case of food, it’s ALWAYS absurd.
Well, it's THE POST. Isn't inflammatory writing their whole deal?
"Appropriation" - the exchange of culture and food and art - is a signature HUMAN trait.
Some cries of cultural appropriation have merit; some are knee-jerk garbage. It's important to suss out which is which before going on a rampage about it.
One can write about it in a way designed to foster dialog or rage. The latter doesn't help, but it sure does get clicks.
Diana Kennedy acted as an important cultural delegate for all the regional cuisines of Mexico to the world’s food curious (mostly the US). However, I found her later years to be punctuated with hubris and a pedantic style that was no longer welcome. Who was she to criticize the many native Mexican chefs who, through their own generational connections, chose to extend or interpret classic dishes with their own visions? Rather than embracing the evolution of Mexican cookery, she leaned on her past agency to find fault rather than encourage. It’s too bad. It’s almost as though she stirred a little British Imperialism into her work.
The sum of Mexican cuisines has been in a Renaissance. It certainly has been enjoyed more broadly because of Kennedy’s early work, but let’s hold back on pronouncing her anything other than an authority on Mexican food history. That would be a true disservice to the many actual Mexican chefs and abuelas that have upheld the traditions long before Diana came along.
Agreed. We're heading into tamale and elote season, and here in the Midwest you'll find some of the best food you'll ever eat being prepared by abuelas at roadside stands. People like Diana Kennedy are the compass pointing the way, which is a valuable function, but the knarled hands of the abuela who has made a million tamales are the tools of true art.
Exactly this! I don’t understand why people in this comment section are refusing to see the difference between cultural appreciation and appropriation. They keep giving examples of appreciation but are obtuse when it comes to actual appropriation.
The real issue occurs when white people make inflammatory statements such as “if a non-Mexican celebrates that nation’s bounty more lovingly than anyone else” and claiming that a white woman is “the most knowledgeable expert on Mexican cooking” (statements from the article) is highly disrespectful toward the culture they’ve taken ideas from. As if they’ve created that stuff themselves. Then white people tend to minimize real cultural appropriation by bringing up trivial issues that a small minority of people have problems with. You can deny that it isn’t cultural appropriation all you want to but that’s expected coming from an appropriator. Most of the people who deny it in these comments are unsurprisingly white. Growth through cultural competency is the part that most white people want to skip and just move on to claiming something as their own. Part of borrowing and appreciating traditions from another culture is knowing the history behind it and respecting the beliefs and feelings of the people who are part of that culture and many white people just refuse to grasp this concept.
"Growth through cultural competency is the part that most white people want to skip and just move on to claiming something as their own."
WOW.
Insert any other race or ethnicity where you have the word "white" and tell me it's OK to say that.
Anyone can appropriate a culture, I never stated otherwise, but it’s obvious who the biggest demographic doing it is. It’s evident through these comments. I guarantee you that the majority of the people defending it or who can’t discern between appropriation and appreciation within this comment section are white. Are you not white?
You didn't answer the question. You made a blanket statement about "most" people in a race. Is it OK to make statements like that about all races, or just white people?
I don't think it is ok to make sweeping generalizations at all, about any group of people. It's certainly not how I was raised. But if you were raised that way, perhaps you should declare it proudly and enlighten us all about its value.
If you say so, as you are part of that majority.
There are so many GREAT comments here and I respect everyone's opinions.
I believe we need to SEE food from the real roots/origins. I believe in the importance of preserving those roots/origins or else we lose something of great value. Even pizza. We cant dilute food pathways, or we lose meaning/context and that's culinary genocide. But we also have to acknowledge that food moves around the world with dizzying speed now and changes to food culture happen every time someone cooks.
One thing I didn't see addressed is the culinary version of Lord Elgin stealing the marble friezes off the Parthenon. THAT is what we can never tolerate, is never acceptable and should always be called out. White America has done that with music and food at various times in our history to name two cultural totems as examples. Taking something without saying where/why/how/ and in some cases without getting permission is just wrong. Full stop. Even noting inspirations are important. thank you all for your comments. I read them all.
And Sierra, what you referred to as my apologies for what I said (which was mis-represented by FC) was heartfelt, real and I learned a lot from that experience. I changed some of the things I do, ways I think, how I talk… if we don’t learn, if we don’t stay teachable we are screwed.
IMO feeling offended for not offensive actions just let’s people lash out and give to their rage. They need some excuse and sadly don’t use their anger on real, serious matters we all should be mad about. I live in Poland and I was born in the ‘80 so I remember the time when there was nothing in stores. My mother gave me a cookbook about oriental cousines in which the author tried to recreate the recipes for Persian or Israeli dishes with what was available at that time (not much). I loved that book and it made me more open and adventurous and creative not just in the kitchen. I think that kitchen should be a safe place to experiment, to learn and to be adventurous. It pours over to other areas of life. We should cherish that.
Yes! It feels like people are actually looking for a reason to get their panties in a wad these days! And seriously, dont we already have enough things to get "wadded" about?
RELAX people, it's food. If it looks good - EAT IT!
It’s wonderful for cultures to experiment , cook, eat, and learn different foods from different cultures. But, taking a taco, adding pomegranate seeds and a blue corn tortilla, and calling it a new handy pocket sandwich to go, that you just invented, is highly insulting.
I am a Master Instructor for the Scuola Italiana Pizzaioli here in the US, and I travel all over the country teaching people how to make pizza. I don't ask the person's ethnicity before I begin teaching, but I'd venture to say that lately, less than a quarter of the people I'm teaching aren't of Italian origin. For all practical purposes, pizza has been so "appropriated", that most people have lost track of the fact that it's Italian.
As an Italian, I am glad to see Italian food doing so well in America. I don't care who makes it, but I'd rather it wasn't butchered. It does bother me, though, that there are so many people who go to such great lengths to strip it of its origins. It's as if they feel less guilty of robbing it, if they can find the moral justification to say the Italians robbed it first. We didn't..
The selective nature of cultural appropriation is what bothers me most, especially being at the losing end of an equation that sees Italian food being among the most popular foods in the US. It's not that we always like what is done, it's that we are not acknowledged if we feel it goes too far; and as a trained Italian chef, I can assure you that it does.
It goes way beyond superficial things like pineapple on pizza, and the scope of it is too broad for this format. I can tell you that, despite my desire to see the food of my culture be successful, there have been times in my professional life that I know it has gone too far. Unlike the other cultures that are at least given a voice, I feel the Italians never have.
Gregorio- Thanks for what you do. Peace through pizza! We built a wood fired oven on our farm in Wisconsin in 2021. We make pizzas almost every weekend, and our imaginations go wild. We make a lot of traditional pizzas, but we always save a few dough balls for experiments. How about Thai chicken pizza with peanut sauce? Seafood pizza with white sauce and Old Bay seasoning? Wisconsin brat pizza (thanks for the recipe AZ)? Nutella with strawberries? My current favorite? Jambalaya pizza with chicken, shrimp, and andouille sausage. Is it pizza? Probably not in the traditional sense. But it is often great. BTW, we always make at least one Margherita pizza to honor the tradition (and because it's awesome), and we imagine what it would be like to stoke the fire in an oven on the slopes of Mt. Vesuvius so many centuries ago.
I don't know if its pizza...and I don't know if it matters! I'm less worried about things like that than I am "I came up with my own spaghetti Carbonara". There IS a spaghetti carbonara, and it doesn't need your spin. How is it people are so creative, they can "improve" on classics, but they're too dumb (or scared) to come up with a name. I think where things go wrong is when you say "I do my own version of a pizza margherita, I put peanut butter and bacon on it instead"! Call it " pizza alla Sheboygan" (Sheboygan has great pizza, btw!) or whatever else and let it stand, or fall, on its own merits.
Oh, I get it. Tradition is the foundation and should be respected.
I mean, have you looked up the founders of the top pizza chains in the U.S.? It’s the same demographic of people who want to stake claim in the cultural traditions of others as well. Instead of comparing who has a louder voice among cultures being appropriated, the blame should be directed toward the appropriators.
Your response reinforces my comment. The appropriators appropriate Italian food with impunity. It’s only when they cross over than anyone notices.
I understand what you’re saying and I agree that it should be called out for all cultures not just some, but ultimately who needs to change and take responsibility for that? This is a question that I am asking you so I can understand more of your perspective.
Whoever is giving these "arbiters" a voice should be held accountable, first and foremost. A tree falling alone in the forest, etc. Since I don't think we're putting the jeannie back in the bottle, I think we should seriously consider calling "foul" on anyone who exploits any culture for financial gain-and I believe the pizza industry is globally worth 160 Billion dollars....Maybe we start showing the lunacy of the appropriation culture if Italy begins suing for royalties on anyone making pizza?