Apr 14, 2022·edited Apr 14, 2022Liked by Andrew Zimmern
I am an American chef, living in Italy for almost 40 years now. Having eaten what Italians call American food... not getting what you expect is sad. So,if you use the Italian word pizza.. i hope to get italian pizza. There are other pizza like flatbreads with wild creative toppings but not what you would expect to be "pizza"- so .... ..When I moved here I ordered a peperoni pizza. It was covered in bell peppers... which are peperoni here.
It might be utterly delicious (I'd happily eat it) but I wouldn't call it a pizza. Isn't pizza by definition Italian? Isn't' it more than just a flat crust with stuff on top? So, I'm a "no". As they say, "you can put a kitty in the oven, but that doesn't make it a biscuit".
Actually several questions in that chat. Bottom line for me…I love authenticity…if I’m craving real Mexican tacos & sides I’m going to head to that kind of spot. And yes, I’ve been surprisingly disappointed when it didn’t taste like somebody’s GMA was in the back making the meal. But I’m also OK trying a “fad” or something outrageous..actually the bar is lower than those promoting “authentic “. Authentic has a preconceived expectation.
It’s easier and sometimes more fun to be surprised by the crazy.
I have to stop thinking of and looking at these delicious pics of pizza!! Already had it twice this week after all the pizza talk. 😂next week can we talk about salads? 😂
Yes it’s real pizza. Pizza is all about a crust, sauce, cheese And toppings. Whether it’s traditional neopolitan, deep dish, Detroit style, etc. It might not be a traditional Italian pizza but depending on where you live and your culture the toppings and styles can vary. Food has always been fluid in how it is passed from one person, generation or cultural location and to put limits on how food can change and adapt is in my opinion a real shame. Just because some one did it first doesn’t mean they do it best. Respecting the originals and embracing change is what keeps food exciting and cultures ever changing.
I like honesty and authenticity, especially in people, which is why I'm divorcing my husband. Now, back to the pizza. When it comes to pizza, I enjoy it many ways. My favorite right now is at Osteria Tulia in Naples, FL. Ricotta, brussels sprouts leaves, garlic and pancetta. O M G
I rarely top my pies. When I do, I favor meats over vegetables or fruits. I’m more likely to go heavy garlic or lots of home seasoned ground sausage or classic pepperoni. My pan pizza stands up any take out. Pizza with fruit on it is a pizza in my book, although I don’t like it personally, I defend its right to exist. Labels are for cans. How about fried eggplant on a ‘za? Love this days posts. I will get back and read later tonight.
It's a complicated question, but essentially, we've denatured pizza from its Neopolitan roots and turned it into an American dish where almost anything goes, for better or worse. To some extent, Americans re-exported pizza to Italy in the 50s and 60's. In fact, the funniest thing is that an American businessman opened a Shakey's knockoff in Florence, Italy, in 1962 that is still in business, today, is still one of the most popular restaurants in town, serving its version of American food.
I think where names matter most is in setting diners' expectations. Hank and I ordered an aguachile in La Paz (BCS, not Colombia) that was utterly lacking in acid and heat, which are two defining components of aguachile. We were disappointed, because we wanted what we know as aguachile. Had it been sold to us as "a very mild version of aguachile," we would've been prepared (or truthfully, we wouldn't have ordered it). So, if you're going to tinker with a *standard*, you should let your diners know. For example, if you put sauerkraut on a crisped corn tortilla and call it "sauerkraut pizza," I'd expect your diners to be a little annoyed. Unless they're gluten-intolerant, but that's another story.
this is that 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder' thing... There is science in art - technical approaches to achieve a desired result. Personally I tend to get the American classic of pepperoni and olives if offered the first time I visit a pizza place. I use this as a standard to measure with but really come on - if it's good it's good and people shouldn't be pretentious about it. Instead they should enjoy the heck out of the food and even better they should share it with people and have a good time while eating it... I'd devour the described pizza, I love spicy and sweet together.
Why stop there? What about snake, dandelion, or grasshopper pizza? Snail pizza, kale pizza, peanut pizza. Brain pizza! Lutefisk, herring, eelpout caviar, sea urchin, smoked salmon, kimchi, turnip pizza. Why not? You make it, and I’ll eat it.
I am an American chef, living in Italy for almost 40 years now. Having eaten what Italians call American food... not getting what you expect is sad. So,if you use the Italian word pizza.. i hope to get italian pizza. There are other pizza like flatbreads with wild creative toppings but not what you would expect to be "pizza"- so .... ..When I moved here I ordered a peperoni pizza. It was covered in bell peppers... which are peperoni here.
It might be utterly delicious (I'd happily eat it) but I wouldn't call it a pizza. Isn't pizza by definition Italian? Isn't' it more than just a flat crust with stuff on top? So, I'm a "no". As they say, "you can put a kitty in the oven, but that doesn't make it a biscuit".
Like it or not, -Merriam-Webster defines Pizza as:
: a dish made typically of flattened bread dough spread with a savory mixture usually including tomatoes and cheese and often other toppings and baked
That pretty much sums it up, Sauerkraut, Pineapple and more on top of flattened bread dough make it a Pizza.
Actually several questions in that chat. Bottom line for me…I love authenticity…if I’m craving real Mexican tacos & sides I’m going to head to that kind of spot. And yes, I’ve been surprisingly disappointed when it didn’t taste like somebody’s GMA was in the back making the meal. But I’m also OK trying a “fad” or something outrageous..actually the bar is lower than those promoting “authentic “. Authentic has a preconceived expectation.
It’s easier and sometimes more fun to be surprised by the crazy.
I have to stop thinking of and looking at these delicious pics of pizza!! Already had it twice this week after all the pizza talk. 😂next week can we talk about salads? 😂
Yes it’s real pizza. Pizza is all about a crust, sauce, cheese And toppings. Whether it’s traditional neopolitan, deep dish, Detroit style, etc. It might not be a traditional Italian pizza but depending on where you live and your culture the toppings and styles can vary. Food has always been fluid in how it is passed from one person, generation or cultural location and to put limits on how food can change and adapt is in my opinion a real shame. Just because some one did it first doesn’t mean they do it best. Respecting the originals and embracing change is what keeps food exciting and cultures ever changing.
I like honesty and authenticity, especially in people, which is why I'm divorcing my husband. Now, back to the pizza. When it comes to pizza, I enjoy it many ways. My favorite right now is at Osteria Tulia in Naples, FL. Ricotta, brussels sprouts leaves, garlic and pancetta. O M G
I rarely top my pies. When I do, I favor meats over vegetables or fruits. I’m more likely to go heavy garlic or lots of home seasoned ground sausage or classic pepperoni. My pan pizza stands up any take out. Pizza with fruit on it is a pizza in my book, although I don’t like it personally, I defend its right to exist. Labels are for cans. How about fried eggplant on a ‘za? Love this days posts. I will get back and read later tonight.
I wrote about this topic recently: Pizza Isn't Italian.
https://eccentricculinary.substack.com/p/pizza-isnt-italian?s=w
It's a complicated question, but essentially, we've denatured pizza from its Neopolitan roots and turned it into an American dish where almost anything goes, for better or worse. To some extent, Americans re-exported pizza to Italy in the 50s and 60's. In fact, the funniest thing is that an American businessman opened a Shakey's knockoff in Florence, Italy, in 1962 that is still in business, today, is still one of the most popular restaurants in town, serving its version of American food.
I think where names matter most is in setting diners' expectations. Hank and I ordered an aguachile in La Paz (BCS, not Colombia) that was utterly lacking in acid and heat, which are two defining components of aguachile. We were disappointed, because we wanted what we know as aguachile. Had it been sold to us as "a very mild version of aguachile," we would've been prepared (or truthfully, we wouldn't have ordered it). So, if you're going to tinker with a *standard*, you should let your diners know. For example, if you put sauerkraut on a crisped corn tortilla and call it "sauerkraut pizza," I'd expect your diners to be a little annoyed. Unless they're gluten-intolerant, but that's another story.
Absolutely! Yes to both!
That is a beautiful pizza. I have a problem, I have to substitute anything else for the tomatoes. I'm very allergic to tomatoes, ideas?
this is that 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder' thing... There is science in art - technical approaches to achieve a desired result. Personally I tend to get the American classic of pepperoni and olives if offered the first time I visit a pizza place. I use this as a standard to measure with but really come on - if it's good it's good and people shouldn't be pretentious about it. Instead they should enjoy the heck out of the food and even better they should share it with people and have a good time while eating it... I'd devour the described pizza, I love spicy and sweet together.
Why stop there? What about snake, dandelion, or grasshopper pizza? Snail pizza, kale pizza, peanut pizza. Brain pizza! Lutefisk, herring, eelpout caviar, sea urchin, smoked salmon, kimchi, turnip pizza. Why not? You make it, and I’ll eat it.